Hya, I leave my last post here below! To my eyes it is worth for the simple fact it explains a concept very underrated in RPGs which I raised as one of the main pillars in the game I wrote! And it is outstanding that in the duscussion, EGG was directly involved! Enjoy!
May the fun be always at your table!
oh, fascinating-- especially, as you point out, how quickly this effect was recognized. not sure i have anything insightful to say. but its plucking my mind strings.
I never teach the rules to newbies, and find that newbies are often the best players. hell, I even love it when newbies donât even think about things like initiative and order of play⌠just jumping in when it feels logical, or when the impulse strikes; and then we adjudicate turn order logically. âyou do realize that the monsters are also trying to kill you, and it took you a long time to grab that rope out of your packâ.
in those cases the rules are âveiledâ. from the perspective of a new player, every time the freeform play (just a conversation following narrative logic) hits a rule, it could be game mechanics, but also might as well be âGM FIATâ. functionally the same from the perspective of the newbie.
but then, as a player, as you learn the rules, you notice the limitations, and you notice the GM FIATS. they felt arbitrary (âmy annoying brother is just trying to fuck with meâ) and, well for me at least, that caused me to walk in the counsel of the ungodly-- and start playing and GMing⌠GURPS and Hero. it felt like, if EVERYTHING could be mechanized, then you could do everything and everything would be fair. ahhhhhh⌠lessons. sure, those systems work in that they have many mechanical rails for play, but, there is a limit. (I discovered this limit because I wanted to make a superhero that was luck based, and the Hero rules just fell to pieces for that build)
and what really sucks is that the actual at the table play just becomes ABOUT those rails. to some measure you get immersion, but its a different kind of immersion. its not narrative⌠its⌠I dunno "train set"y? "math problem"y? the kinda immersion you get from solving complicated engineering problems.
not my favorite. not the worst.
anyway, just musing. what are your game rules that are veiled?
The most common approach I saw to introduce a newbie into RPGs is to let him/her have an overview of the main game mechanics and then let him/her discover details as long as the game unfolds⌠This is also the case of Sandy Eisen, who, I believe, is a clever guy and understood it in a while: the âcharmâ of the unknown provided by the status of uneducated player faded away in a short time: just think to situations where your character faces for the third time goblins⌠you, the player, already know what are strengths and weaknesses of this creatures and you have not a great fun in taking down a new group of goblins once againâŚ
Sorry for the above intro, it was likely redundant, but I prefer to set my starting point. In cases like the ones I pictured, there nothing a GM can do, that it is not only a matter of knowing in advance the game⌠in these cases the lack of that âunknown sideâ could turn playerâs attitude from fun to boredâŚ
In my game I tried to reduce this aspect (to reduce, not to completely remove!) by keeping veiled some pieces of info: these are some characterâs stats. I made up this solution based on the assumption that veiling the mechanics would last shortly, like for the Eisen case. With this other option, players start uneducated and (sooner or later) acquaintance with the rules⌠in any case they miss some pieces in the formulas provided by the rules and this is by means of PCsâ stats managed by GM only. The veil is not on rules, the veil is on a part of playerâs knowledge about their characters!
This approach is very useful to reduce the Eisen problem, and at the same time it follows a sound logic: the player is not allowed to perfectly know all the capabilities of his character. He has to discover PC limits and potentials along the game. By applying this logic I made up a set of mechanics that encourages players to understand what are the missing stats and the more the get close to the real unknown stat, the higher this stat grows. This implies a virtuous circle where the player is kind-of fostered to discover the hidden info and, by doing this, the info grows as if it is trained for that purpose (until an limit provided by characterâs overall stats): let me say a kind-of âknow yourselfâ applied to RPGs!
I am aware it is a difficult concept (or better, I am not enough a good communicator to explain it), however, trust me because facts (real playtest) confirm my theory and show it is by far more easy to understand it by playing it rather than to discuss in theory!
Should you want to read further, I can provide you with other readings otherwise you can have a glance straight to the full set of rules here below. The logic I wrote so far is in the introduction, then the application is along all the set of rules, from characterâs description up to characterâs progression.
May the fun be always at your table!
oh cool⌠iâll have to read that! I like the idea of players not knowing their characterâs actual potential till they test it. clever!
I would love a system where you make a character and you just get attributes like âstrongâ. and that is it for information. maybe its even UNKNOWN, to everyone. and the first time you test your strength⌠like, the classic bending the bars of the gate to your first dungeon⌠THAT is when you actual STR score becomes known, not just to the player, but to everyone.
likely, that would be like, oh, you know you are âstrongâ so, you get to roll 4d6 and drop the lowest. average character just getting to roll 3d6.