Welcome to this week’s blog book club. This week we are discussing XP for Loot in D&D from Rambling Bumblers by Joshua Macy.
Next week we’ll be reading Dissociated Mechanics from the Alexandrian.
You can see a list of previous blog club posts here.
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The post examines the idea that the Loot for XP can be a core part of the gameplay loop for OSR Play. Full disclosure, I am already a full convert. I enjoy Loot for XP as a player because it brings a clear focus and objective to the roleplaying sessions I play in. In the OSR where fights are less important, for me logistics and wealth acquisition becomes the “GAME” part of RPG. Its fun to take risks, accumulate treasure, struggle to get it back to town, and watch characters grow strong enough to take on new threats. Without this loop I can feel lost, but I think this is very person specific.
Despite my love of loot for XP, I still like that BX rules dish out a little something for defeating monsters. This helps ensure in a session that at least some XP is being earned and can make things a bit less boom and bust. I think a secondary use of XP for monsters is that it can be a trap for greedy and completionist players to expose themselves to risk without a lot of reward. Presenting suboptimal options for the party (along with the ability to learn more and become informed) allows for smart play. Squeezing every last drop of XP out of a dungeon may be theoretical possible in some instances, but it shouldn’t be encouraged.
I enjoyed reading this posts examination of what a slog XP becomes when fighting only with no loot. While some people may have this association with modern trad adventures, I think it cuts both ways. I would guess this is what most modern edition taught D&D player see when they crack open Keep on the Borderlands for the first time and scratch their heads at how fighting through the monster canyon gauntlet is even supposed to work. It took me a long time to realize the potential fun to be had in avoiding fighting to focus on loot retrieval.
I also appreciated in Macy’s analysis that XP for loot reduces the risk of the dreaded ‘15 minute workday’. Incidentally this reinforced the idea that wandering monsters are important as they keep the pressure on parties who are trying to conserve their strength so they can use it to explore the dungeon. XP can be thought of as incentives for player behavior, so presenting the 15 minute adventure day as a side effect of fighting based incentives was an interesting argument that I hadn’t been exposed to before.
However, this post assumes that lack of treasure causes players to seek more fights. And maybe that was true for a while. But that assumes that the base rate of XP from fights stays the same instead of changing with a differing game system. As near as I can tell it would take 13 “challenging” fights for 3rd edition D&D party to level up, granted that is less than the 20 example outlined in this post but still sounds like a chore! Both for players who need to survive and the DM whipping out the calculator before and after every session. By 5th edition it only takes about 3 challenging fights for a party to get to 2nd level which is often intended to be done over the course of a single adventure.
The role of thieves and wizards in combat is also evaluated. Its noted that these classes have difficulty participating in combat in OSR games and excel in other areas of dungeon delving. So a side effect of less loot for XP, is that it encouraged designers to make those classes more involved in combat. Over time thieves evolved into striker type roles who are always angling for backstab in combat and the wizards eventually gained unlimited attacking spells in later versions of the game. This can create a feed back loop, as unlimited magic via cantrips can short-circuit environmental exploration and make treasure easier to claim. This contributes to a type of inflation where gold just doesn’t matter as much if its easy to lay your hands on.
The post also looks at possible hurdles with XP for story rewards. Their effectiveness can be GM dependent. My recent experience as a Dolmenwood player details that story awards are good but inherently less dependable. OSR games thrive by having players in control. When the objectives are clear and communicated players can steer gameplay. It can be hard to be proactive about such goals like going to new places, and obtaining secrets. I think these have interesting possibilities for advancement but currently exist only to complement treasure in the games i have witnessed them in.
Ultimately, I believe the consequence for leaving loot for XP is the chance of devaluing the entire XP system itself (which for some games could be desirable). The 5th edition D&D handbook had no loot for XP, rules for monster for XP but DMs were encouraged to assign large amounts of XP for hitting specific milestones such as clearing a dungeon, or completing objectives . Before long, XP was rarely tallied from monsters or quests and groups simply leveled up at pre-established checkpoints created by a GM or adventure writer. This made XP for monsters increasingly vestigial. Further, when you don’t need to scour the dungeon for treasure to level up, the environment itself ceases to be important for purposes of character progression and runs the risk of becoming set dressing if its not given another job to do. The dungeon is then merely the backdrop for the location where adventure happens rather than the adventure itself.
Overall I find this an interesting post, I just think its a bit narrow in its approach to advancement as either fighting or looting. Ultimately, even though I am a fan of Loot for XP, I need to do some soul searching to ask myself whether a broader range of activities should be mechanically rewarded vs players choosing to do things because its cool and narratively advantageous.