Illusions and the Turn Undead Table

Making
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I mentioned on here before that I’ve been looking to put the Turn Undead table to use with enchanters (Illusionists). It may not be the table exactly as it appears in AD&D, though the general structure will be the same. I’ll be using 2D6 rolls throughout.

One thing I had to consider, after becoming comfortable with the idea of a “roll to cast” style mechanism, was how it would work when turned against PCs. The evil enchanter faces off with them and zap! pow! They’re seeing bogeymen coming out of the walls. Well, there’s always a saving throw, right?

The problem is that the effect of the casting is already limited by the enchanter having to roll. Why would the target get two chances to avoid the effect? Wizard spells only involve one roll, the saving throw, so why should illusions be treated different?

I could make the illusions wicked effective to offset the double rolls. Or I can remove a roll. OK, how about no saving throw? The casting roll on the table works as a saving throw for the target. That makes better sense to me.

I can also use that roll to find both the maximum number of HD the illusion will affect, plus the max HD of any given target–put to the rolls used in turning undead into one roll (to rule them all and in the darkness…er, sorry). One cast of the knucklebones works for both. This makes high rolls really effective against groups of low HD critters, and makes it so that the illusion can affect only one target if the target’s HD is high enough. (Say, a roll of 7 is necessary to affect a 7 HD critter; a roll of 7 would affect only that creature. Against a bunch of goblins, that roll would affect many.)

In the situations where the effect is automatic (the T and D entries on the table), the roll only reports how many HD overall are affected. In the above example, if goblins are automatically effected by the caster, due to level, then the roll shows the 7 HD max affected.

I’m now beginning to think about modifiers to the rolls. Believability is one consideration.
An illusion of a giant snake slithering out of the shadows should work better in a place where giant snakes can be commonly found. That snake illusion should be less effective someplace snakes are a rarity and giant snakes have never been seen.

What other considerations should modify the check? Either both parts of the roll result or only one of them, it’s all good to think about.

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I have some prior things I’ve done with using that Turning the Undead table for unusual things, including an Alternative Casting Class that uses it to resolve Spellcasting. The idea behind using it for Casting was basically to provide more Magic, but with a Cost, and I needed a mechanism to determine how that would take effect. By repurposing the 2d6 Roll Made for the “Drain” effect, it saves a few extra rolls. But this still assumes that Saving Throws would be in Place (instead of the Target determining the difficulty, it’s the level of the Spell Effect that sets it.)

Adjudicating Illusions is always a little bit challenging, one thing that’s pretty interesting in some of the older presentations is that a Saving Throw isn’t usually called for immediately or conventionally in all cases. The venerable Phantasmal Force in B/X tends to break things down into are three general types of Illusions:

  • Creating an Illusory Monster: These don’t create a Saving Throw Situation, instead they have an Armor Class of 9 and just vanish if hit in combat.
  • An Illusory Scene: These don’t generate a Saving Throw, they vanish if touched.
  • An Illusory Attack: A phantasmal falling ceiling, an avalanche, a false Magic Missile, etc. These do create a situation where if the Target makes a Save vs Spells they are not affected.

So really, it’s only that third case where the Illusionist is generating something that is physically attacking a Character that would engender a Save. If they just generate a Giant Snake coiled around a large column…that’s not going to create a situation where the Players get to “Save to Disbelieve.” You describe the Snake, and then use the Players actions to determine if the Illusion is dispelled basically. Bogeymen Coming out of the walls? That seems more like a Scene than an Attack to me. Most of the time Players will still react accordingly to the situation, but when they interact with the Scene, it vanishes.

“Rolling to Disbelieve” isn’t what the Saving Throw is for generally, it’s more of a check to determine “Does this Attacking Illusion impact the Target Character?” If they fail, then the effect may appear to be harmful, but no real damage is inflicted. A character who appears to die simply falls unconscious. Any effects generated from these usually only last 1d4 Turns.

Illusions in generally are still Tricky though. I am working on a Play Example/Rules Reference for them (still a ways to go!) because I often see them crop up as a source of problems. There are some ideas/suggestions there for how to handle Adjudicating them that may helpful when it comes to modifying the Check.

2d6’s Triangular Distribution is very fragile though: I usually don’t grant more than a +/- 1 or 2 on it because that does throw things off quite a bit. Instead, I’ve sometimes just modified the dice they use: Favorable Situation? Roll 2d8 on your Check, etc.

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Last things first: My bespoke system uses 2D6 rolls. PC abilities can get to +5 or +6; general modifiers aren’t going beyond +/- 2. Restraint is the road to happiness. :slight_smile:

The Enchanter class is likely to be left out of the first playtest docs I release. It’s that whole “how do I explain how to handle illusions?” thing that’s the first challenge. Then I want to revisit all of the spells, separating them from MU spells more than they are. I also want there to be some actual effect with more powerful spells actually being mental attacks the mess with people’s heads.

It’s going to be interesting to try out a bunch of alternative ways to do it.